Hi sweetie. I wish I had your address so I could send you something to comfort you (you can email it to me if you want). If you need someone to talk to about how to feel, can I give you my friend Berry Chick's email (she took down her blog)? She lost 3 before she had that lovely boy she has today. She even endured a few stretch marks from one - lasting reminders. She copes better than any woman I've ever seen and she's very kind - she's my best friend in real life. I know that she would be a wonderful shoulder if you need one. If there is anything at all that I can do, please let me know. If not, please know that you will be in my prayers from now until however long you need to be!

Yes, you will be okay, and it is okay for it to take a long while.
I am glad you have friends rallying around you, and know what it is like to worry that you are a burden. But being the 'friend' many times, let me assure you that it is a comfort for me when I can do anything at all, even if it is for you, who doesn't know me. Even if all I can do is say I'm thinking of you and crying tears with you.
Sending prayers and love to help you through this.

thanks for sharing such private thoughts with us. i pray you heal eventually with some peace in your heart. what a tough, sad thing to deal with. i've thought about you very often since friday.

Torrie, You've been on my mind constantly. Made me reevaluate my latest craziness. Thank you for checking in. I still worry, but I know you'll be ok.

Oh sweety. Take your time. We'll all be here thinking of you and sending some loving thougts your way.

I just love you lady. I just do.

Thank you for the update - I've been wondering and worrying. I'm sorry so much was stolen from you in this experience - your child, your hope, the pleasure of future pregnancies.

Not only will we bear with you, babe, but we'll help you bear it.

Hey girlie! I was hoping you'd be feeling better by now, but bad feelings linger, huh? That sucks girlie and I am really sorry to hear it.

I really wish you could see just how lucky you are though. Just like the dr said; the big problem for most women is actually getting pregnant in the first place. I feel like you are forgetting that and are putting a bigger negative spin on this than needs to be. From reading this you sound like it's all over, as if this means that you can't have kids or like this naturally terminated pregnancy means that you have to have this hanging over your next pregnancy. But that's ridiculous! Of course unless you want it to. We do not decide matters of life or death, but we absolutely, positively, sure as hell do decide what we're going to do about those circumstances in our lives and how we allow them to affect the rest of our lives.

Big picture time. You have not lost a child, but the dream of this one child in particular. With all due respect, love and kindness, absolutely not the same as losing a child. Try being stuck on the maternity ward while all the new mommies are holding their new babies, feeding them, friends visiting, and you are stuck having to listen to that shit when you have just given birth to a dead baby. Try carrying a dead baby around for a week that is full term, waiting to go into labor and then giving birth. All the while knowing you will not be taking the baby home. My mother was orpahned by the age of 5...she saw her mother shot right in front of her. She didn't need to learn any more life lessons either, but all the above happened to her anyway. (I always use the mom as an example for pretty much everything because no one has had it worse than her...no one...and yet she survived.)

This happens. It's sad, it's unfortunate, but it happens.

What's my point? My point is this...think of how you sabotaged yourself getting pregnant the first time. I don't want this to become the obstacle to your getting pregnant again. For every woman who has a child there is a horror story. It's a fact. Look at how many people have come forward with "I know what you are feeling -the same happened to me."

You wrote that you will have this hanging over you through your next pregnancy. You wrote several things which I think are simply untrue as well, which is why I feel compelled to comment.

Nothing will hang over you negatively that you do not allow to hang over you negatively. You are 100% correct that this will take all the fun out of being pregnant...if you ALLOW it to take all the fun and excitement out of your next pregnancy. If you allow this experience to take that away from you then I think you have to ask yourself why even bother having kids at all? If you hate that this will make you a nervous wreck then how about not letting it!?

You are stronger than this and you are better than this. And your baby deserves a stong mother who will show her that yes bad things happen in life but we get through them simply by facing them head on with strength, with the love of friends and family and with the optimistic belief that things always work out as they should, even if sometimes the answer to our prayers is no.

It's ok to start laughing and having fun today, Torrie. The sooner the better. The more laughter and love in your life the sooner you will have a second chance.

I leave you with this. Let's say your daughter is 25 and you're an old lady. She has suffered a miscarriage. What advice would you give her? Do you tell her that this will affect her for the rest of her life no matter what she does ? Of course not because that isn't true. Wouldn't you tell her that hey, life can suck sometimes but life can also be amazing? That yes if you climb that tree you might fall and you might even break your arm, but so what? Bones heal and the experience of climbing that tree, of seeing the beautiful view over the treetops was worth risking a broken arm.

Isn't it? It's all up to you.

Much love and hugs.

Just another quick note to say I'm thinking of you. You're right, I have no idea what it must be like to go through something like this. I wish you luck and strength to get through this difficult time.

I'm sorry, Laryssa...Is that for real? Everyone's pain is relative, so please don't tell someone who is grieving to be over it already.

I'm sorry, Torrie, but I don't see how anyone can expect you to feel better on the day after you lost your baby.

And I'm quite sure you have perspective on this, and I don't even know you.

People need to grieve a loss...to skip merrily along as if nothing is wrong is called DENIAL. Feeling pain doesn't mean a person doesn't know the obvious.

Me again. After reading comments, I have a few more things to say. Mainly that it's essential that you embrace your emotions.

The grief you are feeling is legitimate, Torrie. And also, when you get pregnant again, the worry you say you will feel will also be legitimate given what you have experienced - I totally get that.

It's true that people suffer terrible, awful things every day. But in no way does that minimize the pain you're feeling. Continue to be honest with yourself, unapologetically.

I think Laryssa is just awful for posting something so crass. I, unlike her, didn't read any lingering despair into your post. You take as long as you need to grieve. It is your right. There are many who will love you and support you and tell people like Laryssa to fuck off. Unless of course, you know who she is and that's the kind of thing you needed to hear today - I hope you're good - we're here.

You may not know me, but I have been through the very same thing about 2 1/2 years ago. I have a beautiful 14 month old girl now and I did worry my whole pregnancy that something would go wrong, but guess what? It didn't. Please e-mail me if you need any support or have any questions. hollycortes@sbcglobal.net Somethimes support from a stranger can make you feel even better because we won't try to make anything up to make you feel better. Things will get better and the pain will subside but you will never forget about that life. For me that has been a good thing. It has made me realize how precious life really is.

And also, like most everyone else has said your feelings are legitimate and you mourn as long as you need to and worry as much as you need to. Nobody else can say their tragedy is worse. It is just not their right.

Huh? I'm confused. When did I say for Torrie to "be over it already"? Those are not my words nor the sentiment in any way.

Hey. You don't know me, and I came over from Candace's place. You and your family have been on my mind all weekend.
I know what it's like to feel that you have just about enough of the lessons, thank you very much. And I know how hard it is to keep your faith.
All I can say is that you will not always feel this way. It will get better. Maybe not as fast as you would like, but it will. In the meantime, be gentle with yourself.
I'll keep you in my prayers.

I wasn't exactly thrilled by Laryssa's tone either - but I'll leave THAT at That.

Torrie, your feelings are legitimate and we all know you're a tough cookie - you know it too; you will be okay. I only hope that the next time around, don't expect the same bad results - enjoy it, nonetheless. I trust you'll be fine. You've got too much sass to let this kick your ass, grrl. BiG HUGS to you and your man.

I'm glad that you can write about this whole thing, Torrie. It means that you're healing.

I lost a pregnancy before Christopher came along and at first I was scared and worried and all that comes along with having had a bad experience, but I *was* able to enjoy it, after a while.

Blove you, sweetie.

I am so glad to see that Holly posted - she is my sister and the one I talked about yesterday. What she went through was devastating for all of us, especially her, of course. And now we have her gorgeous daughter. There will be a special baby one day, Torrie. She or he is waiting in heaven to be born to you!!!

Oh and also, I think the person who said that Torrie shouldn't be grieving seriously needs to shut her mouth. She doesn't know what emotions Torrie is feeling. Everyone is different and grieves differently.

I love ya' Torrie!!! YOu are in my prayers!!!

I've been thinking about you and Dr. Torrie all weekend. I'm so sorry you had to go through this.

I agree with what most of the others have said, your feelings are quite valid and you should take as much time as you need to deal with all this.

Torrie, hi me the lurker again :)
Im Glad you checked in.

Well Laryssa, Im sure your trying to be helpful but, wow you chose totally the wrong words.

Torrie,
I have no idea what your going thru never having been pregnant myself, but Im sure its the hardest horriblest thing.

Im not going to say the usual trite crap about how everything happens for a reason, blah blah blah, Im sick of hearing it and Im sure you are too. What I am going to say is what I wished someone said to me.

Get ANGRY...(when your feeling a bit stronger) Go to your gym, grab a punching bag and beat the crap out of it. Put every little bit of anger, hurt, frustration, pissed offedness, and put it into each punch and kick. If your like me, your gonna yell at it and your gonna cry and by the time your done gonna be damn exhausted, but at least its all out of your system.
Now this isnt a do it once and your cured thing...you may have to do it many times..I did, but each time gets a little less violent as your anger slowly goes.
Most of all there is no set time line for when its time to smile and laugh. One day you will find yourself doing it and feel a little guilty, but thats just you, letting you know that its gonna be ok.
And you will be.
You have much support out there in the real world and here in the blogger world. Your gonna be ok. It might be a while, but it will happen. In the meantime, cry and mourn the loss of your precios one, but keep telling yourself that you did nothing wrong. Not one thing.
Oh and when you see your Doctor, give him a slap for me for being a bit insensitive too.
Im thinking of you and your in my prayers.
Love from the Lurker
Michelle

***Big HUG*** I have just lurked on your site a few times but wanted to let you know how sorry I am. My husband and I have been trying to get pregnant for 14 months. I can not imagine going through what you are going through after all this trying.

Sending you love and support during this difficult time.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

You have my number if you need someone to talk to.

*hugs*

I'm glad you were able to come back so quickly for another post - I wasn't sure when we'd be seeing another update from you. You seem to be taking it as well as can be expected, and it sounds like you have all the support in the world.

I'm glad you went through the surgery without difficulty, and hope you'll have some good news to share with us when you're ready again.

I'm glad you wrote this out, sweetie. Do that as much as it takes. You expressed everything so beautifully. I was not able to do that. I am glad you told people early about the pregnancy. If they didn't know why you were so happy, they wouldn't understand your profound sadness, and you wouldn't be getting the support, in the same way, that you're getting it now. You have enough going on; you didn't do anything to regret, by sharing your joy with everyone. I hug you and Dr. Torrie in my heart. And your baby, too.

I just wanted to hug you and your family.

Hi Torrie,

I know Laryssa meant well, but having just gone through this too, I think she is wrong. If you are anything like me, this *wasn't* just the idea of a baby, it was a baby.

It had names, right? You had wondered what colour eyes it would have; what parts of your child would look like Dr Torrie and what parts like you? Whose personality would it most resemble? Where were they going to go to school? What would they be like at school? What job would they have? What would the wedding look like? Oh yes, this was a real person alright. It doesn't matter whether you made it to term or not, the feeling of having your dead child inside you is terrible. Awful. You ache for the loss. The daily nausea and happy symptoms you had were a constant reminder of all you weren't going to have. ("All of the side effects and none of the benefits" as I told my OB).

And as I said before, you can stop blaming yourself. You.Did.Nothing.Wrong.

Yes, this will take some of the naivete out of being pregnant the next time; but Laryssa is partially right, When you next fall pregnant, be happy, be joyous, enjoy it; but with the benefit of experience, acknowledge your fears.

Take as long as you like to grieve. My heart aches for you.

Wow, Jen said it perfectly. Once again, Torrie, I am thinking about you. Lots of hugs your way...

It's all been said and probably better than I can, but I wish you all the strength, love and support you need to get through this.

*big hugs*

Oh Torrie, I'm so very sorry that you and your hubby are going through this. It's not fair and other people have expressed things far better than I can but I wanted you to know I'm sorry and I hope that once you've grieved you'll be able to move on and although you may be nervous, one day you'll be holding that baby. Lots of love and thinking of you both. Emma x

Big blog love, Torrie. HUGE! XOXO

Torrie

What can I say that hasn't already been said. I have felt sad for you all week and now I am sitting at my friends house crying from your post.

Grieve, Hurt, get mad. Don't blame yourself. Keep faith in your body - the fact that you have already been through so much but can still fall pregnant is great. It may seem devastating now, but once you have a child it will become less of a hurt and more of a step.

Don't worry about upsetting people with the news, I know everyone here is worried for you.

Best of luck for when you decide to try and fall pregnant again.

Hi. I'm just coming by to give a daily virtual hug - I figured you could probably use one.

Just because miscarriages are "common" doesn't make it easy to deal with. The important thing to remember is that there is nothing you did, no way you could have avoided it. It's just one of myriad things in life we have no control over. So, shelve any nagging guilt. You're going to feel awful for a while. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Just remember: this is not the final word on motherhood. This is a terrible moment, but there will be happy motherhood moments in the future. Take care of yourself. And if you need to talk your way through this, you have a lot of friends and cyberfriends out here who are good listeners. :-) Hugs to you from a lurker, who cares enough to de-lurk. :-)

I am thinking of you, darlin.

It's ok to laugh again when you feel the joy come back into your heart- and it will come. Please know that you did NOTHING to cause this.

Scott and I are with you in thought and spirit honeybunny.

i can say nothing except my heart hurts for you and your husband, and you dear baby. i'm so sorry you went through this. thank you for sharing, as i'm sure more than a few women will read it and feel a little less alone.

...but until you do feel like laughing again, this feeling (as bad as it is), is okay too.

Ok Im sorry, everyone is being pretty nice, but that Laryssa comment actually pisses me right the fuck off.

Anything that Torrie feels and writes is not "simply untrue", her feelings at this time are hers alone and even with all the love and support of everyone in her real life and her online life she is the one who has to come to terms with what is in her head all on her own, because we can never be inside her head. And however long that takes her, and whatever things she needs to do to move forward and the feelings she has right at this moment might not be the same as her feelings or needs in the future, but that does not make them untrue.

Compassion. Discretion. Shutting the fuck up. All good things.

Oy.

This was hideously painful for me and I wasn't ready for it.

I'm not talking about Torrie's tragedy - she and I have talked privately about the ordeal she has gone through, and how my own experiences have taught me exactly what she is enduring. She knows I understand.

When I came here tonight, though, I was greeted with Laryssa's comment and it was like a punch in the stomach. What she had to say was an almost verbatim echo of my sister's comments on the day after our baby died.

I'm going to give Laryssa the benefit of the doubt here. I think, like my sister, that she honestly believes she's being honest and pragmatic and loving, in that "tear the bandaid off quickly" way.

Laryssa ... you need to rethink your approach to people who have just gone through a major event like this. In fact, you need to rethink your own ability to judge what others consider a major event. You clearly have no capacity for empathy.

It's OK. Lots of people are missing that quality. It's not tragic, nor is it a social impediment, so long as you understand your judgement on these things may be faulty and therefore opt to keep your own counsel. Because when you lack empathy, anything that spills out of your mouth (or off your keyboard) has a better-than-even chance of being either hideously hurtful or horribly offensive ... or both. Today, you hit the daily double, darlin'.

It's important you understand that once a woman gets pregnant and accepts her pregnancy - embraces it - that cluster of cells becomes a baby. There are all kinds of clinical descriptions of what might have happened here - miscarriage, fetal mortality, intrauterine fatality, whatever the doctors and nurses and legal folks want to call it, to the person in whose body that child is growing, it is "the death of her child". You may quibble with ME about that. But darlin' - there is no quibbling with Torrie. She, not you, gets to make that call. Period. It's important you understand that, so that the rest of what you had to say - well-meaning or not - can be set against the background of THAT reality.

Let's review some highlights:

"I really wish you could see just how lucky you are though." Yeah. Good place to start. In the days immediately following the death of a child, there IS no "bright side", no "silver lining", no "on the other hand". There just isn't. Many people understand this instinctively, but others have to be told. So, just telling you. You are asking someone to do the impossible. Don't do that. She's been asked for too much in the last few days.

"I feel like you are ... putting a bigger negative spin on this than needs to be." God, where to start with that? Just ... no. Not your call to make, Laryssa. No, no, no. Oy, that I have to even say that to someone.

"Big picture time. You have not lost a child, but the dream of this one child in particular. With all due respect, love and kindness, absolutely not the same as losing a child." This just astonishes me with its inherent insensitivity. At what point would Torrie have "lost a child"? Because theoretically, a day old child would have not had much chance to fulfil any dreams its parents might have. A year old? Yeah, still not much in the way of dream fulfillment. Exactly WHEN does this loss become a "real" tragedy? Good God.

Laryssa, I beg you - understand this if you learn nothing else from this discussion: our friend lost far more than a cluster of cells. She does not have to "suck it up" or "get over it" or anything else that you may not have directly said but which we all felt was implied. She gets to decide for herself exactly how to grieve, and for how long, and what form her grief will take. And friends say NOTHING other than "What can I do to make this in any way easier for you?"

"This happens. It's sad, it's unfortunate, but it happens." Please never take a job where you might have to deliver bad news to parents. Please.

"My point is this...think of how you sabotaged yourself getting pregnant the first time." Oh, dear. This one made me spit Coke all over the desk. I cannot imagine anything more cruel than to ask a grieving parent to consider where she might have erred. Laryssa, this was just ... so ill-considered. Truly.

"You wrote several things which I think are simply untrue as well, which is why I feel compelled to comment." You know, there are times when you might want to catch someone up on their logic, or challenge their truthfulness, or even call into question their thought processes. If you don't get that this was NOT a good time for this ... well, again, you might want to rethink your own capacity to feel empathy.

"If you allow this experience to take that away from you then I think you have to ask yourself why even bother having kids at all? If you hate that this will make you a nervous wreck then how about not letting it!?" At this point, I started to wonder if this was in fact a spoof. I mean, nobody on earth could be that insensitive ... could they? This was actually a time when I hoped it was somebody playing a vicious, cruel joke - and not someone who actually believed this was the kind of thing that might be appropriate to say in these circumstances. Alas.

"Let's say your daughter is 25 and you're an old lady. She has suffered a miscarriage. What advice would you give her?" Well (leaving aside the thought that anyone who has a 25 year old daughter is "old"), I would HOPE that Torrie would say "I understand how you feel. Take whatever time you need to heal. If you want to talk about it, you can count on me. You are loved, and all those who love you will help you survive this."

That'd be a good start.

And you know what, Laryssa? Probably what you should have said. Well, that .. or nothing at all.

Very well said Nilbo. I can sit both sides of that fence, because i've been on both sides too. Hearing my mother say, "it happened for a reason" made me want to kill her...and you know me, is out of my nature to want to hurt that woman.
Now, I realize she was right...but it was the hardest thing for me to hear. It's still the hardest thing I've ever been through.

Nilbo, that was priceless. As i'm reading what Torrie put here, and what Laryssa wrote, i've felt sadness, tears in my eyes and then anger at such...meanness. You said it very well.
Torrie, no one but you will know when you'll laugh again. It dosent matter. You are loved, and no one that loves you is going to stop loving you. Take the time you need, do what you need to do.
I love you, sweetie.

:(

Hugs to you and your husband.

I love Nilbo and I love that he helps so eloquently and I'm very sorry that you have to live with that toxic Laryssa in your life. Still thinking of you and praying for you both!

Hi Torrie and hubby
My husband and I have been thinking of you since the initial post. He asked me earlier today how you were doing... I said I hadn't checked since Monday, so we both came to read your update together.
We're sending you healing vibes....
{{{hugs}}}
diana

Thank you Nilbo.

Thank you Nilbo. From all of us who have been through this or something like it.

Nilbo, your words were eloquent and poignant. And so full of truth. Thank you for putting into writing exactly how all of us feel. Whether or not Laryssa meant well or not, she made the biggest faux pas I have seen in a long time. What matters here is Torrie, and her grieving process.

Torrie, you've been in my thoughts all week. Hope you are doing well.

Nothing i can say except I'm sorry, and I wish you joy.

As I said in above post after trying to get pregnant for nine years we finally got pregnant. My God I can't tell you how excited we were. We called everyone, started buying things etc. After I had the miscarriage four months later we were able to try again and I got pregnant again and had my daughter the following October. The entire time we were pregnant with her we never rejoiced. We didn't smile, we were on pins & needles the whole time. Every ultrasound we were tense and anxious. I had a hard time convincing myself something wouldnt' go wrong and when I gave birth we almost lost her and I remember thinking "Yep it's going to happen now". Thank God I was wrong. It's just such a sad thing to go through. I hope when you get pregnant again you will be able to relax and enjoy it. It's so hard. I am not going through it again. One success was enough for me. I feel like i'd be tempting fate if I tried to have another baby. Sorry for the long rant here. I am thinking of you and hoping somehow you get to feeling better soon. It is a sad, angry, painful, guilt-filled situation. :(

I am in tears because I am you right now. I just went through this same thing in January. I lost my baby. :( No heartbeat on the ultrasound. :( Except I never made it to the D&E because everything happened in the middle of the night on its own. And it was horrible. :( I blogged about the whole ordeal just to vent it out. I'm so very sorry. I feel your pain. You have my email address through this post, if you need to talk to someone who can relate, please please feel free to email me.

xoxo you are in my prayers.

Torrie, I am so, so sorry.

I would like to help you out in any way possible. Please write me if you want. I am near you if you want to talk, whatever.

Sorry, sweetheart.

Torrie, that was so heart wrenching. Crying before 9am on a Sunday is not a good thing. I feel for you. I really do. This is my greatest fear.

Sending so much love to you and Mr Torrie.

xxx

I just wanted to say, I am sorry for your loss, Torrie.

Hi honey, I'm SO sorry for your loss. I
know you hear time heals all wounds, I know that may not be comforting, but it is true. My sister was pregnant in 2004, we were planning to be preggo together, this would have been her fourth child. However, she lost her baby girl the same week I found out I was pregnant. Needless to say my pregnancy I felt guilty & she was distant. About four months later she was pregnant again. The whole pregnancy she was scared, but it turned out ok & her baby girl is 7 months now. She went to a support group & read lots of books to help in her loss. I know it was hard for everyone & we still remember Nicole.
Just wanted to tell you You're not alone, somehow it'll make you stronger & know complete strangers care.:) I came over from Southern Fried Girl-they usually call me MILF(from Kami's)

I just found your site through flickr and while I wouldn't usually post being a newbie to come along, but I thought I would tell you that I have gone through what you are going through now. It was sheer hell.

Ignore Layrissa or however she spelled it. There will be people who will tell you to get over it that you'll have more children, or tell you it's what God wanted, blah blah blah. Just ignore them. It hurts but MOST people are just trying to comfort you while they don't really understand the impact of the loss.

I had to have a D&C, too. I found out on a Friday and ended up having to wait over the weekend and attend a birthday party. Talk about awkward. But, thankfully, I managed through it and finally was able to heal. They did testing on the baby and I found out that the baby died of Turners Syndrome. This was around six years ago. I now have a 5 year old and a 3 year old. And I only mention them because when I lost my baby I thought I would never have children. I guess that's a common fear. It was for me, so just throwing that out there.

I'm really sorry for your loss. I know your heart is broken.

I am also a newbie, but had to post because your story and your post were so moving. I also want to express sheer amazement that Laryssa could be so callous the day after you lost your baby, yes baby. It has nothing to do with the pro-life/pro-choice debate. To you and your husband it was a baby. I am so sorry for your lost. Like so many other women here I also lost a baby, a twin around 10 weeks. It does get easier. But, certainly not the next day or the next week or any set amount of time. At the strangest times, I still think about my lost baby.

There are lots of great support organizations out there to help you. Proof positive that you don't just need to get over this.

I received a lot of similar advice about how it was for the best, etc. It doesn't matter. It's okay to just want your baby back, your life back the way it was just a few weeks ago.

Again, I am so sorry for your loss.

Torrie,
I'm sorry. I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sorry I'm only now telling you this. I hope you are doing better. :-)

Oh, Torrie. I'm a month behind on reading blogs and I was so upset to hear about your loss. I've been where you are and I know that there's nothing I can say to make it better. It's good to know you have so many people looking out for you. Hang in there.